Sport Archery » Archery Games » [Fwd: A solution to kids spending too much time on the computer]

[Fwd: A solution to kids spending too much time on the computer]

Question:

> Didn’t you ever teach him anything more > creative?? I taught mine chess, archery, algebra, reading, computers and > programming, motors, magnets and power supplies, how to make things with > tools, how to fix cars and bicycles, and how to use contraception

Steve, I think one problem with your approach to stuff is that you know more than many parents.  What is a parent to do if they don’t know that stuff in the first place?  I know more than 99% of people about electricity and electronics, but still probably less than 1% of what you know.  My son and I do play with motors and stuff, but I could easily have not taken those electronics courses in high school and I never was much of a hobbyist outside of school.  You might say that everyone knows different stuff, but I don’t think that’s really so.  Lots of people just don’t know anything like that.  You and your kids are exceptional. What about the rest of the people? Chris

Response:

> > Yes.  Except that he’s seven and can’t reach the pedals.  What we usually do > is > have him on my lap while I use my feet and verbally help him steer.  And > only in > very light or no traffic. > Gawd I hope you live near me.  I could use the money if we get into an > accident.

Even if we do live in close proximity, we won’t have an accident because we don’t drive when that’s possible.  He needs my help to make the car move, and I’m not willing to do anything dangerous. >  Do you have ANY idea how dangerous it is to have a child in your > lap while you are driving?

Yes.  Wildly more so than normal, but still virtually not at all. > Next time you > do this, please check the distance between the front of your child’s chest > and the steering wheel.

I have to scoot the seat back to make room, but still, not bloody much.  But we won’t have an accident, so it is immaterial. > > Do you feel like you can tell your son why he shouldn’t use drugs, give > him > > your candid opinion, send him to the playground and allow him to decide > what > > he will? > Of course.  What else would possibly work to avoid that danger? > Before it gets too late, and you have a 7 year old so I hope it isn’t too > late yet, please find a local DARE program.  It is WAY too lengthy to go > into here.

Most drugs are usable in a responsible manner.  Those silly scare tactics used by ignorant old fuddy duddies run a huge risk of backfire.  I’d rather my kids be well informed and make free decisions.  This, by the way, includes discussing the dangers of addiction and how it can sneak up on you. > > Do you feel like you can tell your son why homework and grades are > > important, give him your candid opinion about his chances for success if > he > > doesn’t, and then allow him to decide what he will? > Yes.  I treat my son like another person. > You are confusing concepts here.

I’m afraid not. > Your son is a person…there is no > debating that.  But if your 7 year old son were just "another person", why > can’t he vote?

Because our system is corrupt.  I think that the government(s) at all levels should provide the people (all of them) with a summary of laws and candidates’ stances and they should decide who does what. > Why can’t he hold a full-time job?

Because he’s disinterested. > The answer is simple.

Agreed. > Society has decided centuries ago that a 7 year old’s reasoning faculties > are not mature enough to handle the rigors of daily life.

Kids certainly make different decisions than adults.  But to phrase it the way you did, I think is demeaning.  They are equipped to handle the rigors of everyday life for them. > Science has long > since found that a child’s brain is not sufficiently developed to handle the > concepts of right and wrong in complex situations.  That is YOUR job.

I find that most adults can’t do right and wrong to any degree greater than parroting what they were drilled as kids.  It isn’t MY job to decide morality for the average adult any more than it is for my kids.  I tell them what I think they have the freedom of thought to make their own decisions.  None of this right and wrong stuff is handed down from an all-knowing patriarch.  It’s just what we decide about how we want the world to run.  My kids have as much right to an opinion as I do. > You are confusing "person" with "mature adult".  Talk to me again when he is > 13.  If all you ever intend to do is talk to him and show him examples, and > then let him do whatever he wants, you almost certainly will get as much as > you give.

I hope so.  Deep friendship. > You as an adult and parent are expected to provide guidance, examples and > correction where necessary.

I don’t care what society expects of me.  I’ll continue to ignore that and do what’s right instead. > I am not here to debate what you feel is > correct, and I only debating that you appear to feel it is not your > responsibility to provide correction.

I provide as much correction as he and I want.  If I notice a mistake, I let him know.  That doesn’t extend to micromanaging every detail of his life. > A child can not always do what he feels is natural or correct.

Why not? > At one > point, it was natural for your son to defecate in his pants.  I am assuming > he was toilet-trained.

He mostly toilet-trained himself with help from his mom over one weekend once he decided that was what he wanted.  Of course he wasn’t concerned with sitting in his excrement…and he got over it.  It had nothing to do with dictates from me. > A) I don’t think _you_ have any idea what it is doing for him.  If he has a > need > to play this computer game, then maybe you should look for what it’s giving > him.  Have you played it too? > A)  What is it giving him?  Mindless entertainment.

Nope.  He’s developing skills. >I have watched him play it.  I have played it myself.

Great! >We are talking about two different things here.  What we are discussing is: >            1)  That he spends too much time on the computer doing it, and

Not _too much_ for him.  Only _too much_ for you.  But you aren’t in his situation.  You can’t know what’s going on in his head and in his life.  Only he can really and actually decide what’s right for him. >            2)  That he refuses to set reasonable limits on his time doing > it without causing a scene that affects the rest of the family.

But you’re the one causing the scene by dictating to him.  There would be no scene if you respected reasonable limits. > Once, he even asked for YPE to be set, because he knew he > wanted to do something at a certain time, and he didn’t want to be watching > the clock.

Great!  Giving the kids more tools is a wonderful idea.  Though I’m not sure why a kitchen timer, like my son keeps around, wouldn’t work — and better. > B) In all likelihood, unless he is quite simple, he would get tired of the > game > in due time and move on to the next activity (which might be another game) > over > which he can obsess.  We all do that. > B)  By this comment, I suspect that you have not played Diablo II yourself. > It is a never-ending game.  Its probably as close as we can get now to a

I actually haven’t.  I’ve watched it and read about it.  One review did actually call it "digital crack."  I’m vaguely curious about it. > MMORPG until the online version of The Sims comes out.  He, and his

Is that O supposed to be a P?  If not, what is the O? > brothers, have been playing Diablo II since it hits the shelves last Xmas. > They are nowhere near level 99.  If you want an idea of how addicting this > game can be, head to ebay.com.  Do a search on the Stones of Jordan.  See > how much people are willing to pay to get a special weapon in Diablo II.

Sure, but that’s true of Ultima Online, Everquest, and Asheron’s Call too.  That just shows that some people have more money than sense.  And a game that’s so good that people will play it that much, is great!  Game play does develop skills, you know..? > C) Yes.  Since he is the only one who will have to live his life, my son > chooses > what is important to him and I "trust" him to make the right choices.  I > don’t > really see it as a trust issue since it’s just his life, and not mine. > C)  If you honestly feel that the answer to that is yes, I am at a loss for > words.  At the risk of sounding imflammatory, I have always disagreed with > the abdictation of responsibility for children.

No fear of inflammatory here…I knew going into this that we disagreed.  I take my responsibility as a father very seriously.  That’s precisely why I’m working to build a better adult and doing what is right instead of what sometimes comes more naturally. > I have always felt it is a > very subtle form of child abuse.  I am confident you are doing more than you > sound like you are doing with your child.

Maybe so, but I _do_ work very hard not to boss, dictate, or direct.  I make it abundantly clear that he always has the freedom as an autonomous individual to meet his needs, and not just do what I think he ought. > I hope that you are overstating > your case to make a point.  But taking your statements at face value, you > aren’t raising children.  You are providing a house, clothes and food.

And friendship and guidance.  Just not coercion. > We will do a lot better in this conversation if you limit yourself to facts > that are apparent and leave aside the random speculation about what I know > and don’t know about the computer gaming industry.

Take it easy there.  I’m going to continue to make guesses and assumptions based on the information that I have.  Sometimes I’ll be wrong, but I’m pretty good at it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Around 1981 (?) I saved up and bought half (my dad paid the other half) for > an > Atari 400, a couple of games, and a couple of programming carts.  I played > their > Pacman game (which is wildly simpler than Diablo) for about sixteen hours. > It > was all afternoon, all night, and I stopped when my folks got up and came > looking for me.  Then I slept for three hours, got up and proved to myself > that > BASIC worked like it did on our old Commodore PET.  Over the next couple > years, > we continued to extend that computer and I continued to learn new games, > programming skills, and simple hardware skills (I modified a disk drive to > defeat copy protections (by kit) and got a new keyboard on a twelve foot > ribbon > cable because the 400 came with a membrane keyboard).  It did me a great > deal of > good to have the freedom to do whatever with that computer. > And I applaud your efforts.  But again, its an apples and oranges debate. > You took a very simple problem, and learned to solve more complex problems. > Then you branched out and learned even more in tangential fields.  You > became interested in the stuff behind the game rather than the game itself. > Its a new

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Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > Do you feel like you can tell your son why he shouldn’t use drugs, give > him > > > your candid opinion, send him to the playground and allow him to decide > what > > > he will? > > We told them what drugs were dangerous and which were not, and they > > tried the non-dangerous ones and decided they didn’t care for them much > > anyway. Mine were much more into sex. > What a surprise! I could not help myself. > I could very easily live with my children being much more into sex than > drugs. Though I do not see those two things as necessarily mutually > exclusive, especially in red neck land. > We found that most kids we talked to who were fucking our kids had only > had an interest in drugs and/or alcohol because they believed it might > change the puritan atmosphere pervading this culture enough so that they > might accidentally get laid in the confusion, and that was really most > of their interest in drugs and alcohol!! If you let your kids fuck all > the time at home they won’t be interested in drugs or booze, except > perhaps the psychedelics, which have an eternal attraction and which are > unrelated to loosening inhibition. We let ours try alcohol and they were > totally unimpressed and don’t drink to this day. > Steve

I guess all this could be true UNLESS there are other things in their lives which are bad and present a desire to escape through good feeling drugs. Stephanie

Response:

> Let me ask you this: > Do you feel like you can tell your son why he shouldn’t play with a gun, > give him your candid opinion about guns, and then leave your gun unlocked in > your dresser drawer…allowing him to decide what he will?

No.  Not yet.  I’m not willing to put my money where my mouth is to that extent yet.  You caught me. > Do you feel like you can tell your son why he shouldn’t drive until he has a > permit or a license, give him your candid opinion, toss him the keys and > allow him to decide what he will?

Yes.  Except that he’s seven and can’t reach the pedals.  What we usually do is have him on my lap while I use my feet and verbally help him steer.  And only in very light or no traffic. > Do you feel like you can tell your son why he shouldn’t use drugs, give him > your candid opinion, send him to the playground and allow him to decide what > he will?

Of course.  What else would possibly work to avoid that danger? > Do you feel like you can tell your son why homework and grades are > important, give him your candid opinion about his chances for success if he > doesn’t, and then allow him to decide what he will?

Yes.  I treat my son like another person. > What exactly do you do in my case where I have an 11 year old who would > prefer to spend 10 hours a day online playing Diablo?  Do you honestly feel > an 11 year old has the experience, maturity and perspective to understand > what that is doing to his social and mental skills?

A) I don’t think _you_ have any idea what it is doing for him.  If he has a need to play this computer game, then maybe you should look for what it’s giving him.  Have you played it too? B) In all likelihood, unless he is quite simple, he would get tired of the game in due time and move on to the next activity (which might be another game) over which he can obsess.  We all do that. C) Yes.  Since he is the only one who will have to live his life, my son chooses what is important to him and I "trust" him to make the right choices.  I don’t really see it as a trust issue since it’s just his life, and not mine. > How do I know he will do this?  I tried him on it once.  He asked me at 9AM > one Saturday morning, "Can I use the computer?"  I said "Sure.  Tell me when > you want to do something else."   At 7PM that night, after he never stopped > except to grab a few cookies for lunch, I told him "Time to get off the > computer."  He replied and I am quoting exactly here "I need a few more > minutes."

Around 1981 (?) I saved up and bought half (my dad paid the other half) for an Atari 400, a couple of games, and a couple of programming carts.  I played their Pacman game (which is wildly simpler than Diablo) for about sixteen hours.  It was all afternoon, all night, and I stopped when my folks got up and came looking for me.  Then I slept for three hours, got up and proved to myself that BASIC worked like it did on our old Commodore PET.  Over the next couple years, we continued to extend that computer and I continued to learn new games, programming skills, and simple hardware skills (I modified a disk drive to defeat copy protections (by kit) and got a new keyboard on a twelve foot ribbon cable because the 400 came with a membrane keyboard).  It did me a great deal of good to have the freedom to do whatever with that computer. > He got no exercise, ate poorly, didn’t interact with his friends, never > played outside even though it was a nice day.

There’s no harm in that sometimes.  Do you ritually work out whenever the sun is out (if that’s how _you_ define "nice day")? > Do you have any idea how many households stuff like this happens in?

All, I hope.  It’s no biggie.  They only retreat into fantasy worlds too much when they are driven there by oppression. > I can certainly understand your position as you responded to my posting if you > had > a mature, responsible 16 year old son.  Would you give the same answers if > he were 10 years old?  5 years old?

My son just turned seven and seems in some ways a bit less responsible than the average seven year old.  But so what?  Right it right, regardless. > With all due respect, parenting requires leadership.  Leadership requires > discipline.  And one of the shortest (and incomplete) definitions of > discipline is "doing stuff you need to do before you do the stuff you like > to do."

NO.  There’s no such thing as need before want.  If it’s a real need, rather than just some bondage-imposition, then the child wants to do it because they _need_ to get it done. > Almost all children (and some adults) are not naturally disciplined.  This > is requires the adult in their life to provide examples, teachings and > guidance.

Provide examples and teach them what they want to learn.  The best way to give your kids discipline (which I define as the ability to put off immediate gratification for a later, greater gratification) is to show them that you do it and give them the freedom to develop at their own speed.  Don’t get in their way and slow them down, and don’t burden them with your unrealistic expectations. Chris

Response:

At the danger of picking things out of context, let me say that I generally agree with your final statement.  All we are discussing here is process. I’ll include the entire conversation at the bottom of this entry.  I usually hate doing this because of the bandwidth it wastes, but I’ll do it in the interest of fairness. > Do you feel like you can tell your son why he shouldn’t drive until he has a > permit or a license, give him your candid opinion, toss him the keys and > allow him to decide what he will? > Yes.  Except that he’s seven and can’t reach the pedals.  What we usually do is > have him on my lap while I use my feet and verbally help him steer.  And only in > very light or no traffic.

Gawd I hope you live near me.  I could use the money if we get into an accident.  Do you have ANY idea how dangerous it is to have a child in your lap while you are driving?  Both to yourself AND the child?  Next time you do this, please check the distance between the front of your child’s chest and the steering wheel.  Then quickly figure out how much force it would take to crush his rib cage…at 7 years old, its not much.  You can do the rest. > Do you feel like you can tell your son why he shouldn’t use drugs, give him > your candid opinion, send him to the playground and allow him to decide what > he will? > Of course.  What else would possibly work to avoid that danger?

Before it gets too late, and you have a 7 year old so I hope it isn’t too late yet, please find a local DARE program.  It is WAY too lengthy to go into here. > Do you feel like you can tell your son why homework and grades are > important, give him your candid opinion about his chances for success if he > doesn’t, and then allow him to decide what he will? > Yes.  I treat my son like another person.

You are confusing concepts here.  Your son is a person…there is no debating that.  But if your 7 year old son were just "another person", why can’t he vote?  Why can’t he hold a full-time job?  The answer is simple. Society has decided centuries ago that a 7 year old’s reasoning faculties are not mature enough to handle the rigors of daily life.  Science has long since found that a child’s brain is not sufficiently developed to handle the concepts of right and wrong in complex situations.  That is YOUR job. You are confusing "person" with "mature adult".  Talk to me again when he is 13.  If all you ever intend to do is talk to him and show him examples, and then let him do whatever he wants, you almost certainly will get as much as you give. You as an adult and parent are expected to provide guidance, examples and correction where necessary.  I am not here to debate what you feel is correct, and I only debating that you appear to feel it is not your responsibility to provide correction. A child can not always do what he feels is natural or correct.  At one point, it was natural for your son to defecate in his pants.  I am assuming he was toilet-trained. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> What exactly do you do in my case where I have an 11 year old who would > prefer to spend 10 hours a day online playing Diablo?  Do you honestly feel > an 11 year old has the experience, maturity and perspective to understand > what that is doing to his social and mental skills? > A) I don’t think _you_ have any idea what it is doing for him.  If he has a need > to play this computer game, then maybe you should look for what it’s giving > him.  Have you played it too? > B) In all likelihood, unless he is quite simple, he would get tired of the game > in due time and move on to the next activity (which might be another game) over > which he can obsess.  We all do that. > C) Yes.  Since he is the only one who will have to live his life, my son chooses > what is important to him and I "trust" him to make the right choices.  I don’t > really see it as a trust issue since it’s just his life, and not mine.

We will do a lot better in this conversation if you limit yourself to facts that are apparent and leave aside the random speculation about what I know and don’t know about the computer gaming industry.  The first computer game I played is ADVENT back in the old PDP-10 days, I have written a shareware computer game playing system and I just finished American McGee’s Alice.  I am abundantly aware of the popularity of the Diablo series and in fact, bought him the last sequel. A)  What is it giving him?  Mindless entertainment.  I have watched him play it.  I have played it myself.  I am more of a FPS person myself, but I grant him his person preferences.  Its not that "he likes it" that is the debate. We are talking about two different things here.  What we are discussing is:             1)  That he spends too much time on the computer doing it, and             2)  That he refuses to set reasonable limits on his time doing it without causing a scene that affects the rest of the family. This goes back to an earlier comment that I made on parental behavior.  It requires keen observation (if I may paraphrase Dororthy from an earlier conversation "Ya gotta be there"), sufficient reflection to determine a corrective action, and a consistent and fair implementation to establish and reinforce a new behavior.  I wrote YPE because it stopped him from arguing with me over the time.  He simply manages the time and then moves on to something else.  Once, he even asked for YPE to be set, because he knew he wanted to do something at a certain time, and he didn’t want to be watching the clock. B)  By this comment, I suspect that you have not played Diablo II yourself. It is a never-ending game.  Its probably as close as we can get now to a MMORPG until the online version of The Sims comes out.  He, and his brothers, have been playing Diablo II since it hits the shelves last Xmas. They are nowhere near level 99.  If you want an idea of how addicting this game can be, head to ebay.com.  Do a search on the Stones of Jordan.  See how much people are willing to pay to get a special weapon in Diablo II. C)  If you honestly feel that the answer to that is yes, I am at a loss for words.  At the risk of sounding imflammatory, I have always disagreed with the abdictation of responsibility for children.  I have always felt it is a very subtle form of child abuse.  I am confident you are doing more than you sound like you are doing with your child.  I hope that you are overstating your case to make a point.  But taking your statements at face value, you aren’t raising children.  You are providing a house, clothes and food. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> How do I know he will do this?  I tried him on it once.  He asked me at 9AM > one Saturday morning, "Can I use the computer?"  I said "Sure.  Tell me when > you want to do something else."   At 7PM that night, after he never stopped > except to grab a few cookies for lunch, I told him "Time to get off the > computer."  He replied and I am quoting exactly here "I need a few more > minutes." > Around 1981 (?) I saved up and bought half (my dad paid the other half) for an > Atari 400, a couple of games, and a couple of programming carts.  I played their > Pacman game (which is wildly simpler than Diablo) for about sixteen hours. It > was all afternoon, all night, and I stopped when my folks got up and came > looking for me.  Then I slept for three hours, got up and proved to myself that > BASIC worked like it did on our old Commodore PET.  Over the next couple years, > we continued to extend that computer and I continued to learn new games, > programming skills, and simple hardware skills (I modified a disk drive to > defeat copy protections (by kit) and got a new keyboard on a twelve foot ribbon > cable because the 400 came with a membrane keyboard).  It did me a great deal of > good to have the freedom to do whatever with that computer.

And I applaud your efforts.  But again, its an apples and oranges debate. You took a very simple problem, and learned to solve more complex problems. Then you branched out and learned even more in tangential fields.  You became interested in the stuff behind the game rather than the game itself. Its a new world.  This field is so much more complex than it was that the process you talked about doesn’t exist anymore.  Or rather, it does exist, but the level of training required to do what you did is so far higher than you needed back then.  Games on Atari 400s (and you are talking to someone who owned a TI-99A) were playable in a few afternoons, not the months or longer that they require now. In 1981, with sufficient training, you could sit down in a few weeks…a few months worst case…and with minimal training knock out an interesting game that could keep you entertained for a few hours.  This spring, a friend’s son asked me to "teach him how to program".  We started the lessons, and about 3-4 weeks in, he wanted to stop.  When I asked him why, he said "Because I can see it will be years before I could program something like Quake or Diablo."  In other words, he had a glimpse of the mountain that had risen since 1981. Just a quick question.  How old were you when you got that Atari 400? > He got no exercise, ate poorly, didn’t interact with his friends, never > played outside even though it was a nice day. > There’s no harm in that sometimes.  Do you ritually work out whenever the sun is > out (if that’s how _you_ define "nice day")?

Of course I don’t.  No one is perfectly disciplined.  But again, that’s not the point.  In WAY too many households, this happens all the time, not sometimes. > Do you have any idea how many households stuff like this happens in? > All, I hope.  It’s no biggie.  They only retreat into fantasy worlds too much > when they are driven there by oppression.

You obviously don’t.  Do you have any credentials to back up the comment regarding "retreat into fantasy worlds too much when they are driven there by oppression"? def. Oppression — a hardship or injustice; … read more »

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Let me ask you this: > Do you feel like you can tell your son why he shouldn’t play with a gun, > give him your candid opinion about guns, and then leave your gun unlocked in > your dresser drawer…allowing him to decide what he will? > Mine? Sure. They got to go shooting whenever they wanted, it was not an > attraction so our guns stayed in the closet at home, and they knew how > to get into them. They’d helped kill and butcher animals by the time > they started school even. Wasn’t attractive, reminded them of death. > Do you feel like you can tell your son why he shouldn’t drive until he has a > permit or a license, give him your candid opinion, toss him the keys and > allow him to decide what he will? > Virtually the same answer. Mine "learned to drive" on my lap in a iced > over empty parking lot and got to learn how to spin a car when they were > little. They were aware it was dangerous. They got to try out and fail > more than once at the controls where they couldn’t hurt anyone. They > knew I’d always help them more if they wanted to learn, but they never > did. Only one of my kids even HAS a car at age 25! My son doesn’t want > to bother because transit is easier in the city. > Do you feel like you can tell your son why he shouldn’t use drugs, give him > your candid opinion, send him to the playground and allow him to decide what > he will? > We told them what drugs were dangerous and which were not, and they > tried the non-dangerous ones and decided they didn’t care for them much > anyway. Mine were much more into sex.

What a surprise! I could not help myself. I could very easily live with my children being much more into sex than drugs. Though I do not see those two things as necessarily mutually exclusive, especially in red neck land. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Do you feel like you can tell your son why homework and grades are > important, give him your candid opinion about his chances for success if he > doesn’t, and then allow him to decide what he will? > Yes, and that’s precisely what we did! We told him that some courses > are irrelevant and that blowing them off was fine, but that other things > actually come in handy. > What exactly do you do in my case where I have an 11 year old who would > prefer to spend 10 hours a day online playing Diablo?  Do you honestly feel > an 11 year old has the experience, maturity and perspective to understand > what that is doing to his social and mental skills? > If that’s ALL he does and this is not merely a short-term phase he’s > going through trying to master a silly game, then I’d say he has some > worries he’s not telling you about his life or school, because that’s a > symptom of depression! Didn’t you ever teach him anything more > creative?? I taught mine chess, archery, algebra, reading, computers and > programming, motors, magnets and power supplies, how to make things with > tools, how to fix cars and bicycles, and how to use contraception, and > they watched us fuck all their young lives, so they knew how to do that > just fine too! > How do I know he will do this?  I tried him on it once.  He asked me at 9AM > one Saturday morning, "Can I use the computer?"  I said "Sure.  Tell me when > you want to do something else."   At 7PM that night, after he never stopped > except to grab a few cookies for lunch, I told him "Time to get off the > computer."  He replied and I am quoting exactly here "I need a few more > minutes." > That’s not so unusual. It’s new to him. Show him what else he can do > with it. Teach him to program. Mine started out with an old Atari 800 > and played games, but when I showed him how to write his OWN games he > went crazy for it, and that got him much farther into algebra. Mine knew > BASIC, Pascal, some C, and even 6502 assembly before he was in high > school! > He got no exercise, ate poorly, didn’t interact with his friends, never > played outside even though it was a nice day. > Has he discovered girls yet? Give him some condoms and tell him he can > bring home girls to fuck if he can find any! My kids did that. Does he > have a bicycle? Do you? Ever go out riding with him where HE wants to > go?? > Do you have any idea how many households stuff like this happens in?   I can > certainly understand your position as you responded to my posting if you had > a mature, responsible 16 year old son.  Would you give the same answers if > he were 10 years old?  5 years old? > Sure, you just have to take the time to get close to these kids, with a > non-demonstrative parent, a fucking software nerd like you, they just > tend to vegetate and don’t find out what all there is to have fun with. > Has he ever gotten into motors and magnets and batteries and such?? Why > don’t you show him how to control a small motor with the computer’s > parallel port? Don’t know how? Why IS that, and is he just like you?? > With all due respect, parenting requires leadership.  Leadership requires > discipline.  And one of the shortest (and incomplete) definitions of > discipline is "doing stuff you need to do before you do the stuff you like > to do." > Nawh, you’re full of crap and you’re not very imaginative!! In fact you > don’t even seem that bright! Maybe he’s just like you! What do YOU do > at night?? > Almost all children (and some adults) are not naturally disciplined. This > is requires the adult in their life to provide examples, teachings and > guidance.  YPE can help the parent do that. > Oh, you’re THAT guy again!1 More of your YPE bullshit. You mean this > whole post is just your cheap fucking smarmy SPAM!!?? Why don’t you go > write something more fucking useful like an educational program. What’s > the matter with you? Don’t know anything worth teaching anyone besides > Borland C++ Builder or something?? Well then go write s good kids’ > tutorial CD for that and shut the fuck up about parenting till you go > LEARN how to do that right!! Mine are grown and raised and happy! > What are YOUR fucking parenting credentials, huh??? > Steve > > > Of > > > course, we were telling the children that their time was up.  And of > course, > > > they were coming up with every excuse in the book as to why they needed > 5-15 > > > minutes more. > > Maybe they needed more time online. > > > And there were arguments and discussions and requests. > > Stop bullying them. > > >  I just got sick of it. > > It’s all about you after all, isn’t it? > > > I wrote a program for the computer that they could not argue with. > > What a 21st Century manly man. > > > That’s why YPE settles the arguments.  When I set the timer for > > > 6PM, for example, the computer WILL shut down at 6PM.  I don’t have to > worry > > > about it. > > You do have to worry about your kids hating your guts though. > > > Think of it as the same type of safeguard as the ratings lock on your > > > satellite TV dish. > > Another odious invention. > > > You can lecture your children forever and a day that > > > they shouldn’t watch R-rated entertainment.  But isn’t it easier and > quicker > > > and more reliable to put a password on the receiver and tell them why > you > > > put it on? > > I have a perfect solution for this.  I tell my son why I don’t think he > ought to > > watch certain things, giving him my candid opinion, and allow him to > decide what > > he will. > > > Its easier, quicker and more reliable to put YPE on a computer than > > > constantly argue with your child over when computer time is up. > > You could just give them a computer in their room and stop arguing about > it. > > Hell, you can put a decent machine together for under $400 at this point. > > > My > > > experience has been that the child learns to manage their time, rather > than > > > learn how to manage you. > > What a crock of shit.  How does your enforcement of limits teach them to > manage > > their time?  Let them have all the time they have, with all the things > they want > > to get done, and they’ll manage it just fine.  There’s no other possible > > outcome. > > Chris

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > He was not happy. But he was at the dinner table on time at 6PM. That’s > when > > it occurred to me that there were a lot of programs that managed what your > > child could look at on the Internet but nothing that managed how long they > > could be on the computer. Hence, I wrote YPE. > > Visit the YPE website at:  http://members.aol.com/YPEmail > If you are a AOL member, you don’t need a timer such as this.  Go to keyword > "Parental Controls" and all will be revealed.  You can limit computer use to > X hours per day, and/or only on certain days and/or certain times of the day > and/or combination of all the above. > — > Jim > Just another thought. > You can tell your child how much time he can be on it, then you can tell him his > time is up. > Of course, this works best if you are actually in the room with your child, or > at least in the house with him. > By the way, this message is a free download, and talking to your child about > this can lead to teaching him other > responsibilities. > <grin> > Sandi > — > -Sure, I will get a life…… >        as soon as I figure out where >                  to download one!- > 25,000+ visitors can’t be wrong, > Arizona Information is moving on.. > Arizona Information, weather, pictures and more > http://arizonainformation.freeservers.com

– -Sure, I will get a life……        as soon as I figure out where                  to download one!- 25,000+ visitors can’t be wrong, Arizona Information is moving on.. Arizona Information, weather, pictures and more http://arizonainformation.freeservers.com

Response:

Sandi is correct.  But the post below misses the point why I wrote YPE.  Of course, we were telling the children that their time was up.  And of course, they were coming up with every excuse in the book as to why they needed 5-15 minutes more.  And there were arguments and discussions and requests.  I just got sick of it.  I wrote a program for the computer that they could not argue with.  That’s why YPE settles the arguments.  When I set the timer for 6PM, for example, the computer WILL shut down at 6PM.  I don’t have to worry about it. Think of it as the same type of safeguard as the ratings lock on your satellite TV dish.  You can lecture your children forever and a day that they shouldn’t watch R-rated entertainment.  But isn’t it easier and quicker and more reliable to put a password on the receiver and tell them why you put it on? Its easier, quicker and more reliable to put YPE on a computer than constantly argue with your child over when computer time is up. My experience has been that the child learns to manage their time, rather than learn how to manage you. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > Visit the YPE website at:  http://members.aol.com/YPEmail > > If you are a AOL member, you don’t need a timer such as this.  Go to keyword > > "Parental Controls" and all will be revealed.  You can limit computer use to > > X hours per day, and/or only on certain days and/or certain times of the day > > and/or combination of all the above. > > — > > Jim > Just another thought. > You can tell your child how much time he can be on it, then you can tell him his > time is up. > Of course, this works best if you are actually in the room with your child, or > at least in the house with him. > By the way, this message is a free download, and talking to your child about > this can lead to teaching him other > responsibilities. > <grin> > Sandi

Response:

Of course, Dorothy is correct.  When I designed YPE, I had the option of having YPE be automatic.  That is, it would start up and limit the child’s time without the parent needing to be there every time. I chose against that. Every time you need to limit the child’s time on the computer using YPE, you need to reset the shut down time.  It requires a parent to establish the limit. And again, Dorothy is correct.  YPE can’t help you be an example to your child.  YPE will establish a time limit for your child to use the computer. And if you, the parent, in addition to YPE, show the child how important managing your time is and how discipline has helped you in your life, then you can provide the example that YPE will reinforce. And as a last note, Dorothy…your opening reference to "Gone with the Wind" didn’t go unnoticed.  It was appreciated. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Well, at least you are a spammer who defends himself. > Frankly, my dear, no program will help an adult to be a good example > to their child, they have to actually pay attention to their child > in the real world to be a good example > Dorothy > There is no sound, no cry in all the world > that can be heard unless someone listens .. > source unknown

Response:

Let me ask you this: Do you feel like you can tell your son why he shouldn’t play with a gun, give him your candid opinion about guns, and then leave your gun unlocked in your dresser drawer…allowing him to decide what he will? Do you feel like you can tell your son why he shouldn’t drive until he has a permit or a license, give him your candid opinion, toss him the keys and allow him to decide what he will? Do you feel like you can tell your son why he shouldn’t use drugs, give him your candid opinion, send him to the playground and allow him to decide what he will? Do you feel like you can tell your son why homework and grades are important, give him your candid opinion about his chances for success if he doesn’t, and then allow him to decide what he will? What exactly do you do in my case where I have an 11 year old who would prefer to spend 10 hours a day online playing Diablo?  Do you honestly feel an 11 year old has the experience, maturity and perspective to understand what that is doing to his social and mental skills? How do I know he will do this?  I tried him on it once.  He asked me at 9AM one Saturday morning, "Can I use the computer?"  I said "Sure.  Tell me when you want to do something else."   At 7PM that night, after he never stopped except to grab a few cookies for lunch, I told him "Time to get off the computer."  He replied and I am quoting exactly here "I need a few more minutes." He got no exercise, ate poorly, didn’t interact with his friends, never played outside even though it was a nice day. Do you have any idea how many households stuff like this happens in?   I can certainly understand your position as you responded to my posting if you had a mature, responsible 16 year old son.  Would you give the same answers if he were 10 years old?  5 years old? With all due respect, parenting requires leadership.  Leadership requires discipline.  And one of the shortest (and incomplete) definitions of discipline is "doing stuff you need to do before you do the stuff you like to do." Almost all children (and some adults) are not naturally disciplined.  This is requires the adult in their life to provide examples, teachings and guidance.  YPE can help the parent do that.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Of > course, we were telling the children that their time was up.  And of course, > they were coming up with every excuse in the book as to why they needed 5-15 > minutes more. > Maybe they needed more time online. > And there were arguments and discussions and requests. > Stop bullying them. >  I just got sick of it. > It’s all about you after all, isn’t it? > I wrote a program for the computer that they could not argue with. > What a 21st Century manly man. > That’s why YPE settles the arguments.  When I set the timer for > 6PM, for example, the computer WILL shut down at 6PM.  I don’t have to worry > about it. > You do have to worry about your kids hating your guts though. > Think of it as the same type of safeguard as the ratings lock on your > satellite TV dish. > Another odious invention. > You can lecture your children forever and a day that > they shouldn’t watch R-rated entertainment.  But isn’t it easier and quicker > and more reliable to put a password on the receiver and tell them why you > put it on? > I have a perfect solution for this.  I tell my son why I don’t think he ought to > watch certain things, giving him my candid opinion, and allow him to decide what > he will. > Its easier, quicker and more reliable to put YPE on a computer than > constantly argue with your child over when computer time is up. > You could just give them a computer in their room and stop arguing about it. > Hell, you can put a decent machine together for under $400 at this point. > My > experience has been that the child learns to manage their time, rather than > learn how to manage you. > What a crock of shit.  How does your enforcement of limits teach them to manage > their time?  Let them have all the time they have, with all the things they want > to get done, and they’ll manage it just fine.  There’s no other possible > outcome. > Chris

Response:

> Of > course, we were telling the children that their time was up.  And of course, > they were coming up with every excuse in the book as to why they needed 5-15 > minutes more.

Maybe they needed more time online. > And there were arguments and discussions and requests.

Stop bullying them. >  I just got sick of it.

It’s all about you after all, isn’t it? > I wrote a program for the computer that they could not argue with.

What a 21st Century manly man. > That’s why YPE settles the arguments.  When I set the timer for > 6PM, for example, the computer WILL shut down at 6PM.  I don’t have to worry > about it.

You do have to worry about your kids hating your guts though. > Think of it as the same type of safeguard as the ratings lock on your > satellite TV dish.

Another odious invention. > You can lecture your children forever and a day that > they shouldn’t watch R-rated entertainment.  But isn’t it easier and quicker > and more reliable to put a password on the receiver and tell them why you > put it on?

I have a perfect solution for this.  I tell my son why I don’t think he ought to watch certain things, giving him my candid opinion, and allow him to decide what he will. > Its easier, quicker and more reliable to put YPE on a computer than > constantly argue with your child over when computer time is up.

You could just give them a computer in their room and stop arguing about it. Hell, you can put a decent machine together for under $400 at this point. > My > experience has been that the child learns to manage their time, rather than > learn how to manage you.

What a crock of shit.  How does your enforcement of limits teach them to manage their time?  Let them have all the time they have, with all the things they want to get done, and they’ll manage it just fine.  There’s no other possible outcome. Chris

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