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Andy Rooney

Question:

said on last Sunday’s 60 Minutes that anyone that hunts deer with a bow is a brute.  Time for him, Mike and Don to check into the old folks home ;( Frank

Response:

In http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/11/26/60minutes/rooney/main530944… (Rooney: Newspapers Are Great! NEW YORK, Dec. 1, 2002), Andy Rooney rambles about a number of newspaper articles starting with : "The Burlington Free Press has a story about shooting deer with a bow and arrow. Hunting deer with a rifle is one thing but shooting at anything with a bow and arrow is barbaric. Imagine all the places you could hit a deer with an arrow and not kill it. " – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > said on last Sunday’s 60 Minutes that anyone that hunts deer with a bow is a > brute.  Time for him, Mike and Don to check into the old folks home ;( > Frank

Response:

> In

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/11/26/60minutes/rooney/main530944… > (Rooney: Newspapers Are Great! NEW YORK, Dec. 1, 2002), Andy Rooney rambles > about a number of newspaper articles starting with : > "The Burlington Free Press has a story about shooting deer with a bow and > arrow. Hunting deer with > a rifle is one thing but shooting at anything with a bow and arrow is barbaric. > Imagine all the places > you could hit a deer with an arrow and not kill it. "

Thanks for the reference.  I was writing from memory.  (I’m getting old too.)  I had scanned the site to find if I could send the old fart an email. I suspect he’ll hear from bowhunters. Frank

Response:

Frank Logullo wrote the following message: > Thanks for the reference.  I was writing from memory.  (I’m getting > old too.)  I had scanned the site to find if I could send the old > fart an email. I suspect he’ll hear from bowhunters.

He is: http://www.bowsite.com/bowsite/tf/thread.cfm?forum=1&threadid=265861 — Be the arrow… The Little Wind Archers of Fremont County http://clubs.bowhunting.net/littlewindarchers/

Response:

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/feedback/fb_news_form.shtml

> In

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/11/26/60minutes/rooney/main530944… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> (Rooney: Newspapers Are Great! NEW YORK, Dec. 1, 2002), Andy Rooney > rambles > about a number of newspaper articles starting with : > "The Burlington Free Press has a story about shooting deer with a bow and > arrow. Hunting deer with > a rifle is one thing but shooting at anything with a bow and arrow is > barbaric. > Imagine all the places > you could hit a deer with an arrow and not kill it. " > Thanks for the reference.  I was writing from memory.  (I’m getting old > too.)  I had scanned the site to find if I could send the old fart an email. > I suspect he’ll hear from bowhunters. > Frank

Response:

> said on last Sunday’s 60 Minutes that anyone that hunts deer with a bow is a > brute.  Time for him, Mike and Don to check into the old folks home ;( > Frank

        Who are those people?         Oh, wait a minute, you don’t still watch the so-called big three do you, they’re so "five minutes ago" it’s pathetic. Pat Hines

Response:

Hello I am new to archery and stop in to read sometimes, so hello everyone. I shoot traditional and have started collecting, too. I have not started to hunt yet but I really don’t think that matters. I plan to start hunting within a year or so. Here is what I wrote to cbs, if anyone is interested. Mr. Rooney, It is said that angels gather where archers are shooting arrows. The last six months of becoming an archer does not give me any doubt this saying is true. Archery is an exalted act, not an act of barbarism. It is an art form and a sport. It is probably the oldest sport in our modern Olympics. For centuries, archers have defended their families and homes with their skill. During the rise of archery as a war weapon, bows dominated battles. Even after the gun appeared, the bow had some advantages but lost out to modern war technologies. However, I have read that bows were in use as recently as WW2; specifically that two Germans were slain by a British officer who carried the naturally stealth weapon. As for hunting, arrows have put more food on the table for families in the last 50 thousand years than bullets… do the math. Regarding the use of guns for hunting as opposed to using a bow; it is a personal choice. I personally believe that it is less than honorable to take a deer with a rifle when the bow is nearby. A gun would be my last choice even for survival. A true hunter, or archer, does not take a shot that seems to be poorly aimed, regardless of the weapon used. Think of all the places you can shoot a deer with a gun and not kill it! I am sorry for your apparent lack of appreciation for archery and even for hunting. I personally do not hunt with a bow at this time because I am new to archery and I am a responsible person. I do plan to bow-hunt next year when my skills have increased. When considering that hunting is for the survival of the hunter moreso than the hunted, I say, let the hunters chose their own weapons. Sincerely, George Hagegeorge

Response:

> Hello > I am new to archery and stop in to read sometimes, so hello everyone. I > shoot traditional and have started collecting, too. I have not started to > hunt yet but I really don’t think that matters. I plan to start hunting > within a year or so. > Here is what I wrote to cbs, if anyone is interested.

<SNIP> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> As for hunting, arrows have put more food on the table for families in > the last 50 thousand years than bullets… do the math. Regarding the use > of guns for hunting as opposed to using a bow; it is a personal choice. I > personally believe that it is less than honorable to take a deer with a > rifle when the bow is nearby. A gun would be my last choice even for > survival. A true hunter, or archer, does not take a shot that seems to be > poorly aimed, regardless of the weapon used. Think of all the places you > can shoot a deer with a gun and not kill it! I am sorry for your apparent > lack of appreciation for archery and even for hunting. I personally do > not hunt with a bow at this time because I am new to archery and I am a > responsible person. I do plan to bow-hunt next year when my skills have > increased. > When considering that hunting is for the survival of the hunter moreso > than the hunted, I say, let the hunters chose their own weapons. > Sincerely, > George Hagegeorge

Just a few points. One, God to I hope not all bowhunters think the same way as you. I am aware of the accuracy of modern bows (I’m a traditionalist, off to pick my longbow up tomorrow as a matter of fact), but really, you speak of honour when hunting? There is no honour in throwing anything (lead, arrows, bolts, rocks) at anything that can’t throw them back. And survival? Since when have you seen a wounded deer run _at_ someone?! If you are _certain_ you will kill the deer with your one shot then I have no problems with you taking it but you had better be bloody positive. I have no idea whether or not it’s a "given" since I don’t use sights and don’t shoot with anyone who does. I accept the point that a rifle can wound without killing just as easily as a bow. In fact my sister’s boyfriend hunts deer over here in the U.K. (where you have to be licensed up the arse) and refused to allow a party with him to take a shot due to the appalling accuracy they displayed. But the margin of error is greater, and I don’t know a hunter who will risk the needless suffering of an animal just so they can feel "honoured" dragging something they didn’t need to kill back home. I mean, from your spelling and email address I’m guessing you’re in the U.S. Do you _really_ need to hunt for your survival? Are the supermarkets _that_ difficult to get any food from? Your point about survival of the hunter is in error in a developed country. In fact it’s insulting. Please God don’t go out until you’re shooting 40s, will you? All you Americans can now feel free to flame me, Boyracer.

Response:

Boy As I said, I am new to archery, and I’m not hunting at this time. My point to Mr. Rooney was and still is that over the course of history, hunting with primitive weapons which has more greatly enabled survival, not firearms. In recent history that has changed. Primitive practices are not automatically barbaric. Mr. Rooney needs to see that. You are right, there is nothing inherently honorable about killing, but that applies more to murder and assasination. Hunting and defending yourself is different. Maybe I should have said it differently to Rooney as well? Some bowhunters I know are also hunting with guns in season. I can’t wait to talk to them again, they will surely give me some insight. Some of them have been hunting 40 to 50 years with bows and I am greatful to have met them. I enjoy archery and intend to continue. The guys I have been talking with locally tell me they rarely shoot more than 20 or 30 yards when bowhunting with a recurve, sometimes less than 15. Can you hit the spot at 15 yards sir? I imagine the velocity of my 58# pull hitting something at 15 yards would be fairly effective. Would you disagree? If you think taking an animal with a gun is so much better then go right ahead. I prefer archery, we don’t have to agree. I do not need to kill but if I chose to, I would not be dragging home something I didn’t need. I would be feeding my family, not grinning over my trophy. Survival and defense are not the same. I am a peaceful person, but I would also defend myself with a bow or anything else if neccessary…g r i n And since you are making a point about regulation, I am required to take classes before I can apply and hunt. Maybe that makes you feel a bit safer, just in case you visit. By the way, you probably will be hearing from some bowhunters yourself now. ‘Cheers’ George – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello > I am new to archery and stop in to read sometimes, so hello everyone. I > shoot traditional and have started collecting, too. I have not started to > hunt yet but I really don’t think that matters. I plan to start hunting > within a year or so. > Here is what I wrote to cbs, if anyone is interested. > <SNIP> > As for hunting, arrows have put more food on the table for families in > the last 50 thousand years than bullets… do the math. Regarding the use > of guns for hunting as opposed to using a bow; it is a personal choice. I > personally believe that it is less than honorable to take a deer with a > rifle when the bow is nearby. A gun would be my last choice even for > survival. A true hunter, or archer, does not take a shot that seems to be > poorly aimed, regardless of the weapon used. Think of all the places you > can shoot a deer with a gun and not kill it! I am sorry for your apparent > lack of appreciation for archery and even for hunting. I personally do > not hunt with a bow at this time because I am new to archery and I am a > responsible person. I do plan to bow-hunt next year when my skills have > increased. > When considering that hunting is for the survival of the hunter moreso > than the hunted, I say, let the hunters chose their own weapons. > Sincerely, > George Hagegeorge > Just a few points. One, God to I hope not all bowhunters think the same way > as you. I am aware of the accuracy of modern bows (I’m a traditionalist, off > to pick my longbow up tomorrow as a matter of fact), but really, you speak > of honour when hunting? There is no honour in throwing anything (lead, > arrows, bolts, rocks) at anything that can’t throw them back. And survival? > Since when have you seen a wounded deer run _at_ someone?! If you are > _certain_ you will kill the deer with your one shot then I have no problems > with you taking it but you had better be bloody positive. I have no idea > whether or not it’s a "given" since I don’t use sights and don’t shoot with > anyone who does. > I accept the point that a rifle can wound without killing just as easily as > a bow. In fact my sister’s boyfriend hunts deer over here in the U.K. (where > you have to be licensed up the arse) and refused to allow a party with him > to take a shot due to the appalling accuracy they displayed. But the margin > of error is greater, and I don’t know a hunter who will risk the needless > suffering of an animal just so they can feel "honoured" dragging something > they didn’t need to kill back home. I mean, from your spelling and email > address I’m guessing you’re in the U.S. Do you _really_ need to hunt for > your survival? Are the supermarkets _that_ difficult to get any food from? > Your point about survival of the hunter is in error in a developed country.

Response:

> Boy > As I said, I am new to archery, and I’m not hunting at this time. My > point to Mr. Rooney was and still is that over the course of history, > hunting with primitive weapons which has more greatly enabled survival, > not firearms. In recent history that has changed.

I didn’t mean to rain on your parade or affect your enjoyment of archery. Sorry. Archery is wonderful and romantic, yes, but we shouldn’t allow that to interfere with any decision we have to make. Don’t think that hunting with a bow is any better than hunting with a gun because it’s closer to nature or has been done for longer. We don’t need it any more, and should really be thinking in terms of pain inflicted to the game. I would say the same thing to any hunter using guns outside of the limits he could hit and kill in. > Primitive practices are not automatically barbaric. Mr. Rooney needs > to see that. You are right, there is nothing inherently honorable about > killing, but that applies more to murder and assasination. Hunting and > defending yourself is different.

How? Defense is not honourable, it’s neccessary. And hunting is not honourable if your prey isn’t likely to kill you. Some people would argue against hunting being honourable in any case. > I enjoy archery and intend to continue. The guys I have been talking with > locally tell me they rarely shoot more than 20 or 30 yards when > bowhunting with a recurve, sometimes less than 15. Can you hit the spot > at 15 yards sir? I imagine the velocity of my 58# pull hitting something > at 15 yards would be fairly effective. Would you disagree?

No, and as I said originally, if you are confident you can kill a target at whatever range you shoot at then I have no problems with you taking the shot, but you had better be certain. > If you think taking an animal with a gun is so much better then go right > ahead. I prefer archery, we don’t have to agree. I do not need to kill > but if I chose to, I would not be dragging home something I didn’t need. > I would be feeding my family, not grinning over my trophy. Survival and > defense are not the same. I am a peaceful person, but I would also defend > myself with a bow or anything else if neccessary…g r i n

I don’t mind hunting, I mind people talking about it being honourable to hunt. It isn’t, it’s just a good way to get food. And I’m glad the point about defense went home. > And since you are making a point about regulation, I am required to take > classes before I can apply and hunt. Maybe that makes you feel a bit > safer, just in case you visit.

No, it just makes me feel better for the prey. I don’t want you (or anyone else for that matter) feel that I am having a go at bowhunting, I wouldn’t mind a crack at it myself, I just took issue with your badly thought-out comments about the romanticism of bowhunting being sufficient to defend it. As long as you can kill it, I don’t have a problem with hunting with anything. Boyracer.

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