Sport Archery » Archery Equipment » 2nd Class scores – how to improve? AND follow-through??

2nd Class scores – how to improve? AND follow-through??

Question:

Hi, I’m consistantly shooting 2nd-Class (using the Australian Rating System) scores. I don’t seem to be able to improve in any great amounts, certainly not 1st class yet. Now, I don’t get to shoot more than once a week (I will be trying to build an home "range" one day, for practice after work in the hallway) so the obvious solution is to shoot more. This is currently an impossibility given the outdoor only club i’m in and the early darkness these days – hence the home practise idea. Other than shooting more ( and I KNOW someone will suggest I shoot more ) what can I do to improve my scores? I’ve noticed that I don’t have a long follow-through when I release too. My hand stays in basically the same position, i.e. doesn’t move back any further. I was told that my arrows are too long but I haven’t wanted to cut them because I’ve been considering new equipment (again I’ll get around to it one day!). Could it be possible that I am so far back, just getting the arrows through the clicker, that I have nowhere to follow through to? I really don’t think my arm can move any further back… Cheers hip

Response:

What part of Australia are you from? Where is your hand on your face and where are you alinging the string to on your site

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi, > I’m consistantly shooting 2nd-Class (using the Australian Rating System) > scores. > I don’t seem to be able to improve in any great amounts, certainly not 1st > class yet. > Now, I don’t get to shoot more than once a week (I will be trying to build > an home > "range" one day, for practice after work in the hallway) so the obvious > solution is to > shoot more. This is currently an impossibility given the outdoor only club > i’m in and > the early darkness these days – hence the home practise idea. > Other than shooting more ( and I KNOW someone will suggest I shoot more > ) > what can I do to improve my scores? > I’ve noticed that I don’t have a long follow-through when I release too. My > hand stays > in basically the same position, i.e. doesn’t move back any further. I was > told that my > arrows are too long but I haven’t wanted to cut them because I’ve been > considering > new equipment (again I’ll get around to it one day!). Could it be possible > that I am so > far back, just getting the arrows through the clicker, that I have nowhere > to follow > through to? I really don’t think my arm can move any further back… > Cheers > hip

Response:

East Melbourne. My hand is under my jaw bone on the side of my face. I use a shelf-tab and that is anchored on the right edge of my jaw bone. The string, as far as I know, is to the left of the sight ring at full draw. Probably along the edge of the sight window. cheers hip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > What part of Australia are you from? Where is your hand on your face and > where are you alinging the string to on your site > Hi, > I’m consistantly shooting 2nd-Class (using the Australian Rating System) > scores. > I don’t seem to be able to improve in any great amounts, certainly not 1st > class yet. > Now, I don’t get to shoot more than once a week (I will be trying to build > an home > "range" one day, for practice after work in the hallway) so the obvious > solution is to > shoot more. This is currently an impossibility given the outdoor only club > i’m in and > the early darkness these days – hence the home practise idea. > Other than shooting more ( and I KNOW someone will suggest I shoot more > ) > what can I do to improve my scores? > I’ve noticed that I don’t have a long follow-through when I release too. > My > hand stays > in basically the same position, i.e. doesn’t move back any further. I was > told that my > arrows are too long but I haven’t wanted to cut them because I’ve been > considering > new equipment (again I’ll get around to it one day!). Could it be possible > that I am so > far back, just getting the arrows through the clicker, that I have nowhere > to follow > through to? I really don’t think my arm can move any further back… > Cheers > hip

Response:

First, don’t be discouraged. Archery isn’t a completely natural act so you  have to learn by doing. Also, if I remember rorrectly, you haven’t really been shooting very long, ie, you need to set your expectations correctly. Obviously your goal is to shoot the best you can, but remember that it takes time so set your expectations correctly. As to your follow through, your release hand should naturally move back some. Likewise, your bow hand should move forward (towards the target) and maybe to the left (right handed archer). My bet is that you are slightly collapsing on the shot. You are relaxing the muscles in your arms, shoulders, and back as you release the arrow. There is a gizmo called a Formaster. Some think it is a torture device, but it does work to let you see if you are maintaining muscle tension after the release. My suggestion is to get one and try it out. You can also use one to do reversals, a great way to build up shooting muscles without shooting. — Arlington, Massachusetts USA

Response:

Hi, I think second class is ok(!), advancement seems to come in small changes that can build slowly or make little bumps in the learning curve. You’ll notice that score-wise there is less and less between the classes as they increase. Stick at it. Is there a reason for your side of face draw position, or did you just adopt it to pull the most out of long arrows? I think people tend to go for a side-anchor to get more draw length if they need the extra power to reach the further distances. (they’ll all shoot me down now…) If you have the size and strength (what are your bow specs. and draw length?) you may like to try a regular point of chin, lips-kissing-the-string anchor. The advantage is that your chin stays there, your cheek point could vary quite a lot unless you are very careful. If you get the anchor point fixed, then get your target picture sorted, sight and string position consistent, you should get improvement.

> East Melbourne. My hand is under my jaw bone on the side of my face. > I use a shelf-tab and that is anchored on the right edge of my jaw bone. > The string, as far as I know, is to the left of the sight ring at full draw. > Probably along the edge of the sight window. > cheers > hip

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> What part of Australia are you from? Where is your hand on your face and > where are you alinging the string to on your site > > Hi, > > I’m consistantly shooting 2nd-Class (using the Australian Rating System) > > scores. > > I don’t seem to be able to improve in any great amounts, certainly not 1st > > class yet. > > Now, I don’t get to shoot more than once a week (I will be trying to build > > an home > > "range" one day, for practice after work in the hallway) so the obvious > > solution is to > > shoot more. This is currently an impossibility given the outdoor only club > > i’m in and > > the early darkness these days – hence the home practise idea. > > Other than shooting more ( and I KNOW someone will suggest I shoot more > > ) > > what can I do to improve my scores? > > I’ve noticed that I don’t have a long follow-through when I release too. > My > > hand stays > > in basically the same position, i.e. doesn’t move back any further. I was > > told that my > > arrows are too long but I haven’t wanted to cut them because I’ve been > > considering > > new equipment (again I’ll get around to it one day!). Could it be possible > > that I am so > > far back, just getting the arrows through the clicker, that I have nowhere > > to follow > > through to? I really don’t think my arm can move any further back… > > Cheers > > hip

Response:

> Hi, > I think second class is ok(!), advancement seems to come in small changes > that can build slowly or make little bumps in the learning curve. You’ll > notice that score-wise there is less and less between the classes as they > increase. Stick at it. Is there a reason for your side of face draw > position, or did you just adopt it to pull the most out of long arrows? > I think people tend to go for a side-anchor to get more draw length if they > need the extra power to reach the further distances. (they’ll all shoot me > down now…) If you have the size and strength (what are your bow specs. and > draw length?) you may like to try a regular point of chin,

It’s a TD3 with 39# limbs. I don’t know my draw length but I shoot with a clicker – could I just measure the arrows? From memory, the poundage when I’m at full draw with these arrows was about 41-42#. I haven’t managed to get hold of one of those bow scales to test it on recently though. > lips-kissing-the-string anchor. The advantage is that your chin stays

there, Sorry, need to clarify… what I meant is that I put the tab’s shelf under my chin slightly to the RHS. The string is aligned in the middle of my nose and my lips, in the traditional target archery style, although I don’t use a kisser button. > your cheek point could vary quite a lot unless you are very careful. If you > get the anchor point fixed, then get your target picture sorted, sight and > string position consistent, you should get improvement.

Thanks for that. I’ve been shooting only 30m for a while now so that I don’t bring sight settings into the long list of variables. I’m finding that I get tired by the end of the round (90 arrows) and put this down to not shooting enough. It’s hard to tell what part of my technique varies for each shot – I really need someone to watch me shoot I think. I’m still getting a sore bottom finger as well, even though I have the string in the finger joint – don’t know what I can do to fix this. Maybe if this new bow I keep talking about getting is longer? (Mine is a 20" riser w/ the Short limbs). How many people here get coaching of some sort? cheers hip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> East Melbourne. My hand is under my jaw bone on the side of my face. > I use a shelf-tab and that is anchored on the right edge of my jaw bone. > The string, as far as I know, is to the left of the sight ring at full > draw. > Probably along the edge of the sight window. > cheers > hip > > What part of Australia are you from? Where is your hand on your face and > > where are you alinging the string to on your site > > > Hi, > > > I’m consistantly shooting 2nd-Class (using the Australian Rating > System) > > > scores. > > > I don’t seem to be able to improve in any great amounts, certainly not > 1st > > > class yet. > > > Now, I don’t get to shoot more than once a week (I will be trying to > build > > > an home > > > "range" one day, for practice after work in the hallway) so the > obvious > > > solution is to > > > shoot more. This is currently an impossibility given the outdoor only > club > > > i’m in and > > > the early darkness these days – hence the home practise idea. > > > Other than shooting more ( and I KNOW someone will suggest I shoot > more > > > ) > > > what can I do to improve my scores? > > > I’ve noticed that I don’t have a long follow-through when I release > too. > > My > > > hand stays > > > in basically the same position, i.e. doesn’t move back any further. I > was > > > told that my > > > arrows are too long but I haven’t wanted to cut them because I’ve been > > > considering > > > new equipment (again I’ll get around to it one day!). Could it be > possible > > > that I am so > > > far back, just getting the arrows through the clicker, that I have > nowhere > > > to follow > > > through to? I really don’t think my arm can move any further back… > > > Cheers > > > hip

Response:

Better than you might think, if you’re Surrey based. AFAIK Aussie 2nd class straddles 1st/2nd class in UK terms. Aussie first class starts just a smidgin under Bowman… The only valid reasons I know of to go for a side anchor (or any other reference position, for that matter) are that you find it repeatable and can get nicely in-line. The front of face position is great for repeatability, but for a lot of people, lousy for getting in-line. "extra power" – bad, bad, bad reason for a side anchor. A few fps aren’t going to matter if you’re out of line (bigger, faster groups!). Back to the main question: I suppose that the key to improvement is to settle on a style which can be repeated accurately each time (this ususally mean simplifying things as much as possible) then just plugging away at it. You need to work form into habit. Mostly you don’t improve by changing things, but by keeping them the same and just shooting. If any changes are made, *write them down* so it’s easy to revert if they don’t pan out. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi, > I think second class is ok(!), advancement seems to come in small changes > that can build slowly or make little bumps in the learning curve. You’ll > notice that score-wise there is less and less between the classes as they > increase. Stick at it. Is there a reason for your side of face draw > position, or did you just adopt it to pull the most out of long arrows? > I think people tend to go for a side-anchor to get more draw length if they > need the extra power to reach the further distances. (they’ll all shoot me > down now…) If you have the size and strength (what are your bow specs. and > draw length?) you may like to try a regular point of chin, > lips-kissing-the-string anchor. The advantage is that your chin stays there, > your cheek point could vary quite a lot unless you are very careful. If you > get the anchor point fixed, then get your target picture sorted, sight and > string position consistent, you should get improvement. > East Melbourne. My hand is under my jaw bone on the side of my face. > I use a shelf-tab and that is anchored on the right edge of my jaw bone. > The string, as far as I know, is to the left of the sight ring at full >  draw. > Probably along the edge of the sight window. > cheers > hip > > What part of Australia are you from? Where is your hand on your face and > > where are you alinging the string to on your site > > > Hi, > > > I’m consistantly shooting 2nd-Class (using the Australian Rating >  System) > > > scores. > > > I don’t seem to be able to improve in any great amounts, certainly not >  1st > > > class yet. > > > Now, I don’t get to shoot more than once a week (I will be trying to >  build > > > an home > > > "range" one day, for practice after work in the hallway) so the >  obvious > > > solution is to > > > shoot more. This is currently an impossibility given the outdoor only >  club > > > i’m in and > > > the early darkness these days – hence the home practise idea. > > > Other than shooting more ( and I KNOW someone will suggest I shoot >  more > > > ) > > > what can I do to improve my scores? > > > I’ve noticed that I don’t have a long follow-through when I release >  too. >  My > > > hand stays > > > in basically the same position, i.e. doesn’t move back any further. I >  was > > > told that my > > > arrows are too long but I haven’t wanted to cut them because I’ve been > > > considering > > > new equipment (again I’ll get around to it one day!). Could it be >  possible > > > that I am so > > > far back, just getting the arrows through the clicker, that I have >  nowhere > > > to follow > > > through to? I really don’t think my arm can move any further back… > > > Cheers > > > hip

Response:

i don’t think that the length of your arrows has anything to do with your dead follow through. I had the same problem and to solve it is just a matter of getting the draw from your arm and into your back. This is the hard part ,as it is not something that can be taught over the net. your best bet would be to ask a coach down at your club. Also go to www.archery-forum.com and sign up and post your questions there as most of the members of that site are from Victorian clubs.

> East Melbourne. My hand is under my jaw bone on the side of my face. > I use a shelf-tab and that is anchored on the right edge of my jaw bone. > The string, as far as I know, is to the left of the sight ring at full draw. > Probably along the edge of the sight window. > cheers > hip

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> What part of Australia are you from? Where is your hand on your face and > where are you alinging the string to on your site > > Hi, > > I’m consistantly shooting 2nd-Class (using the Australian Rating System) > > scores. > > I don’t seem to be able to improve in any great amounts, certainly not 1st > > class yet. > > Now, I don’t get to shoot more than once a week (I will be trying to build > > an home > > "range" one day, for practice after work in the hallway) so the obvious > > solution is to > > shoot more. This is currently an impossibility given the outdoor only club > > i’m in and > > the early darkness these days – hence the home practise idea. > > Other than shooting more ( and I KNOW someone will suggest I shoot more > > ) > > what can I do to improve my scores? > > I’ve noticed that I don’t have a long follow-through when I release too. > My > > hand stays > > in basically the same position, i.e. doesn’t move back any further. I was > > told that my > > arrows are too long but I haven’t wanted to cut them because I’ve been > > considering > > new equipment (again I’ll get around to it one day!). Could it be possible > > that I am so > > far back, just getting the arrows through the clicker, that I have nowhere > > to follow > > through to? I really don’t think my arm can move any further back… > > Cheers > > hip

Response:

>It’s a TD3 with 39# limbs. I don’t know my draw length but I shoot with a >clicker – could I just measure the arrows? From memory, the poundage when

If your arrows are the correct length, and your clicker is set right you should be able to do the following: Stand in front of a target (close range). Close your eyes (yep, hence the close range target). Relax your head, neck, shoulders. Come to pre-draw. Ensuring: (a) Your head hasn’t moved. (b) Your bow shoulder has moved as little as possible (keep it down) Come to full draw with the same two checks. Feel the pressure of the bow being supported by your skeletal structure. Now (without moving) open your eyes and look down at the clicker… is it on the point? It should take a small stretch from this point to drop the clicker… Repeat this a few times. If you aren’t consistently in the same place, your form isn’t ready for a clicker. If you aren’t consistently on the point, your arrows are too long or your clicker is in the wrong place. Video yourself. Compare this video with the GENERAL form of top archers. Is your body shape/shoulder/head position roughly the same? >tired by >the end of the round (90 arrows) and put this down to not shooting enough.

Everyone gets a little tired after 90 arrows (depending on how long you take to shoot them etc. etc.) Analyse your scores… how do they vary? Do they improve the more arrows you shoot? Do they get worse? Is there any consistency or pattern at all? If your scores get worse, then your form is collapsing as you tire. If they get better, then that’s good. If your style is static (i.e. no movement after the shot), this would indicate a reaction to the clicker. Try using a rubber stretch-band instead of the bow – pretend the clicker has dropped and let go – what happens to your hands? That’s the same reaction you want when you’re shooting your bow. Keep the movement going and attack the gold! >It’s hard to tell what part of my technique varies for each shot – I really >need >someone to watch me shoot I think.

Video. Great tool. Set the camera up and then watch it back. Make notes of what changes from the start to the end of the round. If you don’t have a camcorder, try to get a hold of a couple of large mirrors and set them up so that you can see your form as you shoot. >I’m still getting a sore bottom finger as well, even though I have the >string in >the finger joint – don’t know what I can do to fix this. Maybe if this new >bow >I keep talking about getting is longer? (Mine is a 20" riser w/ the Short >limbs).

20" riser and short limbs is definitely on the short side and will tend to give you "finger pinch", not only affecting arrow clearance but also putting more strain on your fingers. >How many people here get coaching of some sort?

I do. It’s invaluable IMO. Having someone experienced to bounce ideas off is very useful. They are often also are able to see when things are going bad before you notice yourself. But, like I said, video is the tool if you don’t have access to a coach.

Response:

>>I’m still getting a sore bottom finger as well, even though I have the >string in >the finger joint – don’t know what I can do to fix this. Maybe if this new >bow >I keep talking about getting is longer? (Mine is a 20" riser w/ the Short >limbs). > 20" riser and short limbs is definitely on the short side and will > tend to give you "finger pinch", not only affecting arrow clearance > but also putting more strain on your fingers.

Is it true that a longer bow has more stability (at the expense of cast)?  From the sounds of it (39# limbs but holding 41-42#) hippy’s draw length is about 29" which means he should be using ~68" bow. Hence if he were to use a proper size bow, he should gain a lot more in stability = smaller groups = higher scores.. btw hippy, which club are you in? Shawn

Response:

<snip> > Is it true that a longer bow has more stability (at the expense of cast)? >  From the sounds of it (39# limbs but holding 41-42#) hippy’s draw > length is about 29" which means he should be using ~68" bow. > Hence if he were to use a proper size bow, he should gain a lot more > in stability = smaller groups = higher scores..

Interesting. Well, I’m still saving and still have no idea what bow to actually get but I’ll make sure that it’s plenty long enough when I do get it. > btw hippy, which club are you in? > Shawn

Sherbrooke Archery Club in Upper Ferntree Gully, outer-eastern Melbourne, Victoria, Australia, Earth Are there many aussies in this group? Cheers hip

Response:

>>btw hippy, which club are you in? > Sherbrooke Archery Club in Upper Ferntree Gully, outer-eastern > Melbourne, Victoria, Australia, Earth > Are there many aussies in this group?

I’m in Box Hill City Archers. Shawn

Response:

Follow through: a couple of quick thoughts. So long as your draw hand does things consistently each time, don’t worry about it too much. The front arm is more important at that stage (last point of contact with the arrow). Commit to the shot and keep extending towards the target… Good follow through is the *result* of good form, not the cause. Get the rest right and it happens… if it doesn’t happen then fixing the symptom isn’t the way to go… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi, > I’m consistantly shooting 2nd-Class (using the Australian Rating System) > scores. > I don’t seem to be able to improve in any great amounts, certainly not 1st > class yet. > Now, I don’t get to shoot more than once a week (I will be trying to build > an home > "range" one day, for practice after work in the hallway) so the obvious > solution is to > shoot more. This is currently an impossibility given the outdoor only club > i’m in and > the early darkness these days – hence the home practise idea. > Other than shooting more ( and I KNOW someone will suggest I shoot more > ) > what can I do to improve my scores? > I’ve noticed that I don’t have a long follow-through when I release too. My > hand stays > in basically the same position, i.e. doesn’t move back any further. I was > told that my > arrows are too long but I haven’t wanted to cut them because I’ve been > considering > new equipment (again I’ll get around to it one day!). Could it be possible > that I am so > far back, just getting the arrows through the clicker, that I have nowhere > to follow > through to? I really don’t think my arm can move any further back… > Cheers > hip

Response:

I found the key to my grouping woes was post release shape; basically I was collapsing after the shot… when I concentrated on keeping the back active during and after the release [especially the left side pushing my bow arm...] I found my groups improved considerably. The same applies to the follwo through… if the right hand side of your back is active in pulling the string the follow through should be a natural reaction. Regards Ewan — Ewan Oughton 0143324 B.Sc. Comp. Sys [2nd Year] http://www.10xshot.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> i don’t think that the length of your arrows has anything to do with your > dead follow through. I had the same problem and to solve it is just a matter > of getting the draw from your arm and into your back. This is the hard part > ,as it is not something that can be taught over the net. > your best bet would be to ask a coach down at your club. > Also go to www.archery-forum.com and sign up and post your questions there > as most of the members of that site are from Victorian clubs. > East Melbourne. My hand is under my jaw bone on the side of my face. > I use a shelf-tab and that is anchored on the right edge of my jaw bone. > The string, as far as I know, is to the left of the sight ring at full > draw. > Probably along the edge of the sight window. > cheers > hip > > What part of Australia are you from? Where is your hand on your face and > > where are you alinging the string to on your site > > > Hi, > > > I’m consistantly shooting 2nd-Class (using the Australian Rating > System) > > > scores. > > > I don’t seem to be able to improve in any great amounts, certainly not > 1st > > > class yet. > > > Now, I don’t get to shoot more than once a week (I will be trying to > build > > > an home > > > "range" one day, for practice after work in the hallway) so the > obvious > > > solution is to > > > shoot more. This is currently an impossibility given the outdoor only > club > > > i’m in and > > > the early darkness these days – hence the home practise idea. > > > Other than shooting more ( and I KNOW someone will suggest I shoot > more > > > ) > > > what can I do to improve my scores? > > > I’ve noticed that I don’t have a long follow-through when I release > too. > > My > > > hand stays > > > in basically the same position, i.e. doesn’t move back any further. I > was > > > told that my > > > arrows are too long but I haven’t wanted to cut them because I’ve been > > > considering > > > new equipment (again I’ll get around to it one day!). Could it be > possible > > > that I am so > > > far back, just getting the arrows through the clicker, that I have > nowhere > > > to follow > > > through to? I really don’t think my arm can move any further back… > > > Cheers > > > hip

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