Sport Archery » Archery Bows » 1 nock or 2?

1 nock or 2?

Question:

glad yew-all asked.  Check the documents page, TSAA website.  🙂 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Thanks for all the great feedback, lot’s to think about. I had > considered Beiter NPs but they looked fiddly – maybe I’ll give them a > go. Is there a good on-line reference on how to hand tie nock points? > Thanks again… > Dave >     Incidentally, I just put a second NP on Lindsey’s bow a few days >     back, after making a new string and center serving with some mono >     .21 (THanks, Jane, for the tip<G>).    Problem was, if I served >     the string such that you could nock the arrow, and then by simply >     tapping the bowstring with the arrow pointed towards the ground, >     the nock would release,  then the arrow would fairly freely slide >     up and down the serving.   This had me a little worried about >     whether the shaft would move even a little bit upon release.   >     Os I figured that the nock was just a leetle too soft, and since >     the arrows were tending weak anyway, I put a second Saunders on.   >     The sound of the bow changed dramatically.    The arrows moved a >     little stiffer as desired.   And her arrows are not showing any >     kind of vertical pattern in grouping, so I feel fairly certain >     that the nocks are not sliding up/down during release.   >     Also, if you tune your bow completely while using the metal nocks, >     and THEN switch to the Beiter NP, your tune is no longer complete, >     at least as far as the plunger’s resistance is concerned, I would >     think.   It simply cannot be, if I understand the process well >     enough.     There is a big difference in the mass of one (or two) >     Saunders metal nocking point and a Beiter plastic NP, enough to >     make a difference in where a bare shaft will land, for example, at >     18 meters. >     YMMV…. >FWIW, the thin tape you get with spinwings (for taping the tips down) makes >excellent temporary/emergency nock points.  Just got to remember to wind it >on in the correct direction >-Mac >PS. I only ever use one nock point – above the nock.  And I prefer >super-glued fastflight, or similar, for a ‘permanent’ nock point (if I’m not >using Beiter nock points, that is). >>David? Strange name for a girl… Oh I see… >>The difference between metal and non-metal NP is a good one, but I’ll >>also note that Beiter are quite happy to recommend that you tune with >>a tie-on NP, then replace it with a Beiter NP, when you’ve determined >>the best tune. >>I’ve used metal NPs in the dim and distant past, but they marked up my >>tab quite badly. I switched to cotton-and-superglue, which works quite >>well but needs some maintenance, in the form of additional glue every >>now and again I found. Eventually I went to Beiter NPs. The Beiters >>are a little fiddly to fix, but just about zero maintenance once in >>place. >>I’ve never shot with just a single NP, I was always worried that the >>nock might slip and foul on my middle finger, but I understand that a >>lot of people do it with a great deal of success. >>>Hi A.Ron… back from sunny Cannes and just catching up! >>>>One nock is necessary to locate the arrow in the exact position needed. >>>>The second nock MAY be necessary if the nock does not click onto the >>>>string sufficiently tightly to prevent the arrow from slipping on >release. >>>David, my girlfriend noticed a considerable increase in sightmarks >>>when she shifted from two NPs to just one. While the extra sightmarks >>>would have been useful, she went back to two since that gave her >>>better groups. >>>Personally, I always shot two and it did me just fine. Nowadays I use >>>Beiter NPs and they do me even better ) >>>I also never got on with metal nock points. Learn to tie your own with >>>dental floss, then secure with cyanoacrylate (sp?) – superglue. I’ve >>>also seen people use little strips of masking tape or similar… works >>>well while tuning, and can then be soaked in the superglue to fix in >>>place. >>>In summary, try both 1 & 2 (and various types) to see what gives you >>>best groups. Note as Ron says, using different types (metal vs dental >>>floss) MAY affect your tuning, so make sure you check that before >>>making any qualatative judgements on group size. >>>Hope that ramble helps! >– >TexARC >publicize the sport of Archery!  http://www.texasarchery.org >and put your name in body of message.

– TexARC publicize the sport of Archery!  http://www.texasarchery.org and put your name in body of message.

Response:

Dave,  in my experience I could get away with one nocking point above the nock with aluminum arrows.  However, with the lighter weight carbon shaft it is mandatory that two nocking points be used due to the arrow is so light that it had/has a tendency to slide down on release.  Groups were tighter and the infamous "flyers" were eliminated with two nocking points. Darrell Pace

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Just setting up my new bow – Win & Win Toz recurve for target archery. I’m > wondering about nock points on my string. I’ve always used 2 nocks, but I > notice a lot of people only using one – any thoughts/opinions, thanks > Dave

Response:

yew prolly shoulda just worked more on your execution, pilgrim…. <GDRLH>  (grinnin’,duckin’,runnin’ lahk hell) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Dave,  in my experience I could get away with one nocking point above the >nock with aluminum arrows.  However, with the lighter weight carbon shaft it >is mandatory that two nocking points be used due to the arrow is so light >that it had/has a tendency to slide down on release.  Groups were tighter >and the infamous "flyers" were eliminated with two nocking points. >Darrell Pace >Just setting up my new bow – Win & Win Toz recurve for target archery. I’m >wondering about nock points on my string. I’ve always used 2 nocks, but I >notice a lot of people only using one – any thoughts/opinions, thanks >Dave

– TexARC publicize the sport of Archery!  http://www.texasarchery.org and put your name in body of message.

Response:

> Problem was, if I served the string such that > you could nock the arrow, and then by simply tapping the bowstring with > the arrow pointed towards the ground, the nock would release,  then the > arrow would fairly freely slide up and down the serving.

Having recently made a few strings, I was wondering if that was a trait common to all nocks. The nocks I have (Bjorn, Beiter, Pro Nocks) are all 2.8-3.0 mm diameter at the throat but the clip is only 2.5mm.. Hence, for it to clip off easily, the throat would be too large… Shawn

Response:

Thanks for all the great feedback, lot’s to think about. I had considered Beiter NPs but they looked fiddly – maybe I’ll give them a go. Is there a good on-line reference on how to hand tie nock points? Thanks again… Dave   Incidentally, I just put a second NP on Lindsey’s bow a few days back, after making a new string and center serving with some mono .21 (THanks, Jane, for the tip<G>).    Problem was, if I served the string such that you could nock the arrow, and then by simply tapping the bowstring with the arrow pointed towards the ground, the nock would release,  then the arrow would fairly freely slide up and down the serving.   This had me a little worried about whether the shaft would move even a little bit upon release.     Os I figured that the nock was just a leetle too soft, and since the arrows were tending weak anyway, I put a second Saunders on.     The sound of the bow changed dramatically.    The arrows moved a little stiffer as desired.   And her arrows are not showing any kind of vertical pattern in grouping, so I feel fairly certain that the nocks are not sliding up/down during release.     Also, if you tune your bow completely while using the metal nocks, and THEN switch to the Beiter NP, your tune is no longer complete, at least as far as the plunger’s resistance is concerned, I would think.   It simply cannot be, if I understand the process well enough.     There is a big difference in the mass of one (or two) Saunders metal nocking point and a Beiter plastic NP, enough to make a difference in where a bare shaft will land, for example, at 18 meters.   YMMV…. FWIW, the thin tape you get with spinwings (for taping the tips down) makes excellent temporary/emergency nock points.  Just got to remember to wind it on in the correct direction -Mac PS. I only ever use one nock point – above the nock.  And I prefer super-glued fastflight, or similar, for a ‘permanent’ nock point (if I’m not using Beiter nock points, that is).

David? Strange name for a girl… Oh I see… The difference between metal and non-metal NP is a good one, but I’ll also note that Beiter are quite happy to recommend that you tune with a tie-on NP, then replace it with a Beiter NP, when you’ve determined the best tune. I’ve used metal NPs in the dim and distant past, but they marked up my tab quite badly. I switched to cotton-and-superglue, which works quite well but needs some maintenance, in the form of additional glue every now and again I found. Eventually I went to Beiter NPs. The Beiters are a little fiddly to fix, but just about zero maintenance once in place. I’ve never shot with just a single NP, I was always worried that the nock might slip and foul on my middle finger, but I understand that a lot of people do it with a great deal of success.

Hi A.Ron… back from sunny Cannes and just catching up! One nock is necessary to locate the arrow in the exact position needed. The second nock MAY be necessary if the nock does not click onto the string sufficiently tightly to prevent the arrow from slipping on release. David, my girlfriend noticed a considerable increase in sightmarks when she shifted from two NPs to just one. While the extra sightmarks would have been useful, she went back to two since that gave her better groups. Personally, I always shot two and it did me just fine. Nowadays I use Beiter NPs and they do me even better ) I also never got on with metal nock points. Learn to tie your own with dental floss, then secure with cyanoacrylate (sp?) – superglue. I’ve also seen people use little strips of masking tape or similar… works well while tuning, and can then be soaked in the superglue to fix in place. In summary, try both 1 & 2 (and various types) to see what gives you best groups. Note as Ron says, using different types (metal vs dental floss) MAY affect your tuning, so make sure you check that before making any qualatative judgements on group size. Hope that ramble helps! — TexARC publicize the sport of Archery!  http://www.texasarchery.org and put your name in body of message.

Response:

Incidentally, I just put a second NP on Lindsey’s bow a few days back, after making a new string and center serving with some mono .21 (THanks, Jane, for the tip<G>).    Problem was, if I served the string such that you could nock the arrow, and then by simply tapping the bowstring with the arrow pointed towards the ground, the nock would release,  then the arrow would fairly freely slide up and down the serving.   This had me a little worried about whether the shaft would move even a little bit upon release.   Os I figured that the nock was just a leetle too soft, and since the arrows were tending weak anyway, I put a second Saunders on.   The sound of the bow changed dramatically.    The arrows moved a little stiffer as desired.   And her arrows are not showing any kind of vertical pattern in grouping, so I feel fairly certain that the nocks are not sliding up/down during release.   Also, if you tune your bow completely while using the metal nocks, and THEN switch to the Beiter NP, your tune is no longer complete, at least as far as the plunger’s resistance is concerned, I would think.   It simply cannot be, if I understand the process well enough.     There is a big difference in the mass of one (or two) Saunders metal nocking point and a Beiter plastic NP, enough to make a difference in where a bare shaft will land, for example, at 18 meters. YMMV…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >FWIW, the thin tape you get with spinwings (for taping the tips down) makes >excellent temporary/emergency nock points.  Just got to remember to wind it >on in the correct direction >-Mac >PS. I only ever use one nock point – above the nock.  And I prefer >super-glued fastflight, or similar, for a ‘permanent’ nock point (if I’m not >using Beiter nock points, that is). >David? Strange name for a girl… Oh I see… >The difference between metal and non-metal NP is a good one, but I’ll >also note that Beiter are quite happy to recommend that you tune with >a tie-on NP, then replace it with a Beiter NP, when you’ve determined >the best tune. >I’ve used metal NPs in the dim and distant past, but they marked up my >tab quite badly. I switched to cotton-and-superglue, which works quite >well but needs some maintenance, in the form of additional glue every >now and again I found. Eventually I went to Beiter NPs. The Beiters >are a little fiddly to fix, but just about zero maintenance once in >place. >I’ve never shot with just a single NP, I was always worried that the >nock might slip and foul on my middle finger, but I understand that a >lot of people do it with a great deal of success. >>Hi A.Ron… back from sunny Cannes and just catching up! >>>One nock is necessary to locate the arrow in the exact position needed. >>>The second nock MAY be necessary if the nock does not click onto the >>>string sufficiently tightly to prevent the arrow from slipping on >release. >>David, my girlfriend noticed a considerable increase in sightmarks >>when she shifted from two NPs to just one. While the extra sightmarks >>would have been useful, she went back to two since that gave her >>better groups. >>Personally, I always shot two and it did me just fine. Nowadays I use >>Beiter NPs and they do me even better ) >>I also never got on with metal nock points. Learn to tie your own with >>dental floss, then secure with cyanoacrylate (sp?) – superglue. I’ve >>also seen people use little strips of masking tape or similar… works >>well while tuning, and can then be soaked in the superglue to fix in >>place. >>In summary, try both 1 & 2 (and various types) to see what gives you >>best groups. Note as Ron says, using different types (metal vs dental >>floss) MAY affect your tuning, so make sure you check that before >>making any qualatative judgements on group size. >>Hope that ramble helps!

– TexARC publicize the sport of Archery!  http://www.texasarchery.org and put your name in body of message.

Response:

Just setting up my new bow – Win & Win Toz recurve for target archery. I’m wondering about nock points on my string. I’ve always used 2 nocks, but I notice a lot of people only using one – any thoughts/opinions, thanks Dave

Response:

One nock is necessary to locate the arrow in the exact position needed. The second nock MAY be necessary if the nock does not click onto the string sufficiently tightly to prevent the arrow from slipping on release. The second nock is also useful  in tuning – if you need to make the dynamic spine behavior to be MORE STIFF, putting an additional metal nock on the string will stiffen the arrow’s spine.   The extra nock can also cause interference with execution if the lower fingers are used to a smooth serving and then encounter instead the rougher metal nock/seam. Think of the second nock as being some dead weight that your bow has to push with each shot that never leaves the bow.   You might try using only one, and see if your groups turn into vertical spreads.   >Just setting up my new bow – Win & Win Toz recurve for target archery. I’m >wondering about nock points on my string. I’ve always used 2 nocks, but I >notice a lot of people only using one – any thoughts/opinions, thanks >Dave

– TexARC publicize the sport of Archery!  http://www.texasarchery.org and put your name in body of message.

Response:

You should also get ahold of some good docs on archery as backgrounder information – there is a doc called  "Murray’s Fabulous Balbardie Archery Guide" – (or is it Fabulous Murray’s…?)   anyway, he has gathered a great compendium.   You can download it fer free from the TSAA’s Documents page. http://www.texasarchery.org >Just setting up my new bow – Win & Win Toz recurve for target archery. I’m >wondering about nock points on my string. I’ve always used 2 nocks, but I >notice a lot of people only using one – any thoughts/opinions, thanks >Dave

– TexARC publicize the sport of Archery!  http://www.texasarchery.org and put your name in body of message.

Response:

Hi A.Ron… back from sunny Cannes and just catching up! >One nock is necessary to locate the arrow in the exact position needed. >The second nock MAY be necessary if the nock does not click onto the >string sufficiently tightly to prevent the arrow from slipping on release.

David, my girlfriend noticed a considerable increase in sightmarks when she shifted from two NPs to just one. While the extra sightmarks would have been useful, she went back to two since that gave her better groups. Personally, I always shot two and it did me just fine. Nowadays I use Beiter NPs and they do me even better ) I also never got on with metal nock points. Learn to tie your own with dental floss, then secure with cyanoacrylate (sp?) – superglue. I’ve also seen people use little strips of masking tape or similar… works well while tuning, and can then be soaked in the superglue to fix in place. In summary, try both 1 & 2 (and various types) to see what gives you best groups. Note as Ron says, using different types (metal vs dental floss) MAY affect your tuning, so make sure you check that before making any qualatative judgements on group size. Hope that ramble helps! — Murray

Response:

David? Strange name for a girl… Oh I see… The difference between metal and non-metal NP is a good one, but I’ll also note that Beiter are quite happy to recommend that you tune with a tie-on NP, then replace it with a Beiter NP, when you’ve determined the best tune. I’ve used metal NPs in the dim and distant past, but they marked up my tab quite badly. I switched to cotton-and-superglue, which works quite well but needs some maintenance, in the form of additional glue every now and again I found. Eventually I went to Beiter NPs. The Beiters are a little fiddly to fix, but just about zero maintenance once in place. I’ve never shot with just a single NP, I was always worried that the nock might slip and foul on my middle finger, but I understand that a lot of people do it with a great deal of success. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi A.Ron… back from sunny Cannes and just catching up! >One nock is necessary to locate the arrow in the exact position needed. >The second nock MAY be necessary if the nock does not click onto the >string sufficiently tightly to prevent the arrow from slipping on release. > David, my girlfriend noticed a considerable increase in sightmarks > when she shifted from two NPs to just one. While the extra sightmarks > would have been useful, she went back to two since that gave her > better groups. > Personally, I always shot two and it did me just fine. Nowadays I use > Beiter NPs and they do me even better ) > I also never got on with metal nock points. Learn to tie your own with > dental floss, then secure with cyanoacrylate (sp?) – superglue. I’ve > also seen people use little strips of masking tape or similar… works > well while tuning, and can then be soaked in the superglue to fix in > place. > In summary, try both 1 & 2 (and various types) to see what gives you > best groups. Note as Ron says, using different types (metal vs dental > floss) MAY affect your tuning, so make sure you check that before > making any qualatative judgements on group size. > Hope that ramble helps!

Response:

FWIW, the thin tape you get with spinwings (for taping the tips down) makes excellent temporary/emergency nock points.  Just got to remember to wind it on in the correct direction -Mac PS. I only ever use one nock point – above the nock.  And I prefer super-glued fastflight, or similar, for a ‘permanent’ nock point (if I’m not using Beiter nock points, that is).

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> David? Strange name for a girl… Oh I see… > The difference between metal and non-metal NP is a good one, but I’ll > also note that Beiter are quite happy to recommend that you tune with > a tie-on NP, then replace it with a Beiter NP, when you’ve determined > the best tune. > I’ve used metal NPs in the dim and distant past, but they marked up my > tab quite badly. I switched to cotton-and-superglue, which works quite > well but needs some maintenance, in the form of additional glue every > now and again I found. Eventually I went to Beiter NPs. The Beiters > are a little fiddly to fix, but just about zero maintenance once in > place. > I’ve never shot with just a single NP, I was always worried that the > nock might slip and foul on my middle finger, but I understand that a > lot of people do it with a great deal of success.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi A.Ron… back from sunny Cannes and just catching up! > >One nock is necessary to locate the arrow in the exact position needed. > >The second nock MAY be necessary if the nock does not click onto the > >string sufficiently tightly to prevent the arrow from slipping on release. > David, my girlfriend noticed a considerable increase in sightmarks > when she shifted from two NPs to just one. While the extra sightmarks > would have been useful, she went back to two since that gave her > better groups. > Personally, I always shot two and it did me just fine. Nowadays I use > Beiter NPs and they do me even better ) > I also never got on with metal nock points. Learn to tie your own with > dental floss, then secure with cyanoacrylate (sp?) – superglue. I’ve > also seen people use little strips of masking tape or similar… works > well while tuning, and can then be soaked in the superglue to fix in > place. > In summary, try both 1 & 2 (and various types) to see what gives you > best groups. Note as Ron says, using different types (metal vs dental > floss) MAY affect your tuning, so make sure you check that before > making any qualatative judgements on group size. > Hope that ramble helps!

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